THE INTERVIEWER: We want to offer you tobacco and thank you very much for coming. I’ll give it to you afterwards, because people handle it and that’s all we hear.
Mais pour l'entrevue, nous avons également apporté des pierres qui ont été bénies par notre peuple spirituel à Winnipeg, afin que vous puissiez vous y accrocher tout au long de l'entrevue. Choisissez un rocher, là.
Je prends quelques petites notes ici, juste pour que vous le sachiez, au fur et à mesure.
Pouvez-vous nous dire votre nom, s'il vous plaît et l'épeler pour nous.
BEVERLY ALBRECHT: D'accord. Beverly Albrecht; Beverly
Albrecht.
Q. D'où venez-vous?
A. I’m from Six Nations, but I live in Brantford, so I’m Status, Quega (ph.) Turtle Clan.
Q. Dans quel pensionnat êtes-vous allé?
A. Mohawk Institute in Brantford. I went from 1966 to 1970, and that’s when they closed it.
Q. Wow. Étiez-vous là quand ils l'ont fermé?
A. Um-hmm.
Q. Oh. You’ll have to tell us about how that felt.
Vous souvenez-vous de votre premier jour à l'école?
R. Oui. Il y avait 3 sœurs qui sont allées, dont moi-même, et 2 frères. Mais les garçons ont été séparés des filles. Ils avaient leur propre dortoir.
Ma famille est passée avant moi parce que j'étais à l'hôpital. J'ai dû subir une chirurgie à cœur ouvert à Toronto, car je suis né avec un souffle cardiaque. Quand j'avais 7 ans, j'ai dû subir une chirurgie à cœur ouvert dès que je suis allée à l'hôpital de Toronto. Quand j'ai quitté l'hôpital, j'ai dû aller au pensionnat.
I didn’t find out until later on in life that we were under Childrens’ Aid and my mom was a single parent because my dad died and she couldn’t take care of all of us. So we got sent as a family. I found out later that my mom was in Residential School, the same one, but I don’t know how long she stayed, because her mom died young so her grandmother raised her for a little while. And her dad couldn’t raise her, so she was sent to Residential School. So my mother went, and myself, and I’m glad it closed.
Q. Votre mère a-t-elle déjà parlé de ce qu'elle ressentait de devoir vous y envoyer?
A. She thought it was best for us because she couldn’t take care of us and she didn’t have very much support, like emotional support. I was 7. I was the oldest. My brother was 6. My other sister was 5. The other brother was 4, and my younger sister was 3.
Q. Trois quand elle est allée au pensionnat?
A. Ouais. Elle a juste dit que c'était le meilleur pour nous. Alors je l'ai simplement accepté.
Q. Êtes-vous allé directement de l'hôpital après votre chirurgie à l'école?
A. Yes. I remember the first day I went there were steps that you go up into the Institute. I remember there was a little boy sitting on the steps and I was waiting for someone to come and get me to tell me where I had to go. He gave me a hug and gave me a kiss on the cheek, and he goes, “You’re going to be all right.” I didn’t even know this boy. I found out later who he was. But I thought that was different. This is an experience that has stayed with me. That was my first day.
Je pouvais voir mes frères à l'heure du souper, quand nous prenions les repas, parce que nous arrivions dans des rangs différents. Et puis nous avons pu les voir.
Q. Vous souvenez-vous autre chose de votre premier jour?
A. Just that we had to all dress up. We had to wear a uniform. Everybody dressed the same. We had to get our hair cut. And being scared. I didn’t know what was required, and that was part of the requirement that everybody looks the same. They have short hair. And boys and girls met at mealtimes.
Q. Aviez-vous le droit de leur parler à l'heure des repas?
A. The only time I remember talking to my brothers is Sunday. We have a Sunday dinner. That’s the only time I remember talking to them. The boys sat on one side and the girls on the other.
Q. Vous venez de subir une intervention chirurgicale. Avez-vous reçu des soins après la chirurgie lorsque vous êtes allé à l'école? Est-ce que quelqu'un est venu vérifier comment allait votre cœur, et tout ça après?
A. Not that I remember. The only time I remember being sick was having mumps. I remember I was in class and they had a piano teacher. I was going to learn piano lessons, but I couldn’t take it because I had mumps. That’s the only other time I remember anybody taking care of you. They were separate from the Dorms. They had a Sick Room, they called it.
Q. Pouvez-vous nous parler d'une journée type? À quelle heure t'es-tu réveillé? Aviez-vous des tâches à accomplir? Quels repas as-tu mangé? Qu'en est-il de l'éducation, et ce genre de choses. Présentez-nous simplement une journée typique.
A. Okay. I think we woke up about 7, but I’m not sure. It was early because we had to do chores before we went to eat. We all had to get dressed, make our bed and line up.
We had to make our beds like the military, really tight, so a quarter would jump. That’s how we were taught to make our beds, because we had bunk beds.
One of my chores I remember was doing the stairs. I had to clean them with a toothbrush, that’s how clean they were supposed to be. I remember using bleach. I still use bleach, not as much as I used to because I have a daughter and 3 sons and they say I use too much bleach.
Also, in my profession, I’m a Personal Support Worker, I think that’s why I got into that kind of environment, because that’s all I was used to is cleaning.
Après avoir fait cela, nous devions faire la queue, sortir et prendre notre petit-déjeuner. Cela m'a rappelé l'armée parce que tout le monde est aligné. Nous avions 3 niveaux différents. Il y avait des juniors, des intermédiaires et des seniors. C'était par votre groupe d'âge. Vous aviez des privilèges différents pour le groupe dans lequel vous apparteniez, ainsi que l'heure à laquelle vous deviez vous coucher.
Après le petit déjeuner, nous allions à l'école. Nous devions y marcher, aller à notre classe et apprendre.
I thought the education was all right. But if you were bad, or if anybody was bad, we had to squat. That was our punishment, to go down the hall. And also you had to stand, pretend you have a book on your head, and make your back straight because that’s part of discipline they said, and also to have good posture. I remember that.
I remember one trip when I was a little bit older. We went to the Royal Winter Fair. I didn’t know what it was. I just remember it was all decorated and it was nice. I remember going. But now that I see commercials, now I know it’s called the Royal Winter Fair. At that time I didn’t know what it was. I thought it was just some kind of fairy land, or something, because everything was decorated. I enjoyed that.
Pour le 24 mai, nous allions à la réserve pour du pain et du fromage, mais nous prenions le bus et partions pour la journée. Mais nous étions tous habillés de la même manière et tout le monde avait encore les cheveux courts.
I remember the first day before I went to bed, we had to do a hair check to see if we had lice. They used very strong chemicals in our hair but I didn’t know what it was.
Q. Even if you didn’t have lice?
R. Oui. Tout le monde l'a fait. Ils devaient l'avoir.
For breakfast we usually had porridge. They called it the “Mush Hole” because that’s what we had was mush.
If you talk to Residential School survivors some still like mush and others don’t. I still like it, but some people won’t have anything to do with it because if you have it every day, it’s something that you don’t forget. I won’t forget it anyways.
Nous aurions du temps de jeu. Les filles jouaient généralement ensemble.
Il y avait beaucoup de Cris de différentes réserves, et s'ils étaient surpris en train de parler leur langue, ils étaient à court.
Q. Pouvez-vous parler votre langue lorsque vous êtes allée au pensionnat?
A. No. I didn’t know my language. My mom knew hers, but she was so afraid to speak it with us because she went to Residential School and they were taught the same way: you don’t speak it or you get heck. It’s like they said it was wrong. So she never taught us. But I knew that she knew how to speak, or listen, even to communicate with the older people. But I don’t know my language.
Q. Avant d'aller à l'école, pratiquiez-vous des traditions à la maison?
A. We didn’t really have a tradition. The only thing I think of being close is doing things together. Before I went into Residential School my mom used to take us to visit relatives. She was like a mother duck and we were behind her.
I always think family is important so I always keep in touch with my family. I tell them, like my daughter, even though she’s older now, she’s got her own family, she says, “I didn’t used to like it when you used to take us visiting because to me it was like a long day.” I said, “That’s what I learned from my mom.” Even though I was young, it is something that stayed with me. And even to this day I still feel that visiting people, even elderly people, even if you don’t talk to them, just listen, you learn a lot. So it’s something that I pass onto my children.
Mes garçons sont très sociables. Ils aiment visiter les gens.
Q. De quelles autres expériences pouvez-vous parler qui se sont déroulées au pensionnat?
A. Okay. One of the things that happened to me was me and my friend were running around the Dorm. We were going in between the bunk beds. We called them House Mothers. They were people who took care of us. They are Non-Native. This one lady was over weight so she couldn’t fit between the bars, so we would go through there. And we got caught running around.
So we got sent downstairs and they had an office. In the office were some lockers. We were both put in there and they closed the doors on us. I think I only stayed there ten minutes. She stayed longer. I don’t know when she came back up. So even to this day, when I’m in a room I have to keep the closet doors closed. I think that affects me. I know where it came from. I’ve had counselling and I know that because I was so young it stays with me. That was one of the things that happened to me there.
Another one was on Sundays —
Because they didn’t want us to get along with the other girls, they would have boxing matches to make us fight just so that we wouldn’t like the other girls, and also, too, because they thought they had so many rules, they thought if we fight with each other we’ll end up taking our anger, or whatever we have, out on the other girls.
I remember fighting with my sister. She’s 2 years younger than me, but we never beat each other. We just did it. We were just talking about it last week that we were taught to defend ourselves. But that’s not very loving and it’s not very physical. You don’t do it just because you want to. They did it because they wanted us to be angry and to beat up on somebody younger.
Q. Vraiment? Qui organiserait ces combats?
A. Les mères de maison. Ce sont eux qui ont pris soin de nous. Mais chaque jour, nous en aurions un différent et ils auraient des horaires différents. Nous en aurions donc un qui nous réveillerait tous les jours. Un autre irait aux repas avec nous. Un autre s'assurerait que nous prenions notre bain ou notre douche.
The Shower Room was —
Comme dire que c'était des juniors. Toutes les filles iraient ensemble, puis les intermédiaires une autre fois, et les seniors à un autre moment.
In our cloakroom we had one locker. We had one set of clothes for play/school and another one for going to the Mohawk Chapel. We went every Sunday. That’s where we would walk. That was our worship. They didn’t want us to do smudging or anything. My mom didn’t do smudging because I guess she didn’t really know that much. I didn’t find out about smudging until later on, when you were asking if there was anything different.
Q. Revenons à la boxe pendant une minute. Auraient-ils d'autres filles qui regardent ça aussi?
A. Um-hmm. Ouais, c'était comme un truc de spectateur. Ils applaudiraient tous, et peu importe.
Q. Wow. Que pensaient les filles de ça?
A. Well, a lot of them just did it because they had to. I don’t think they wanted to, but it was because it was required, they just did it.
Q. Vous souvenez-vous que quelqu'un a été blessé?
A. Not really bad, I don’t think. They would stop it before someone got really hurt. I think it was more just so we couldn’t get along.
Q. Est-ce que ce genre de bagarre se poursuivrait avec les filles après, comme dans le dortoir?
R. Non, non. Ils disaient simplement que c'était à certains moments. Si vous aviez un problème avec quelqu'un, ils diraient que si vous voulez combattre celui-là, vous le pouvez.
Q. Like if someone was —
R. Comme la semaine prochaine.
Q. Wow.
A. But I don’t remember anybody getting seriously hurt. But just thinking about it, it would stay with you.
Q. Y a-t-il d'autres expériences que vous souhaitez partager avec nous?
A. I had cousins, other relatives that I knew that went as families, too. I have a niece who is older than me. We’re still real close. We’re both on our healing journey. I was mostly at her mom’s. That’s my sister, my older sister. I was at their house a lot, even before I went into the school. My niece and I, we’re still close.
Q. Qu'en est-il de l'éducation? Quelle note avez-vous obtenu lorsque vous êtes parti là-bas?
A. Probablement 4e ou 5e année.
Q. Parce qu'il a fermé ses portes?
R. Oui.
Q. Pouvez-vous parler un peu de ce qui s'est passé lors de sa fermeture? Vous étiez là quand c'est arrivé?
A. All we knew was that it was closing down. They never really told us why. It was just that we knew we couldn’t go back. Only once we went home in the summer, because you could go home for the summer, and my mom used to come and visit us once a month. She would take us out to the show in Brantford. I liked that.
But with closing down, I didn’t really understand why it closed down.
Q. Quel âge aviez-vous lors de sa fermeture?
A. Environ dix.
Q. Donc, après sa fermeture, êtes-vous allé à l'école de jour ordinaire?
A. Because I was under Childrens’ Aid I went into a foster home. Because there were 5 of us in the family, the boys were with a lady and we were with her sister, us 3 girls. So we didn’t even get to go home. We went to foster care, until I was about thirteen or fourteen.
Q. L'année suivante, après sa fermeture, êtes-vous allé dans une école de jour ordinaire?
A. Ouais. Mais nous avons dû prendre un bus.
Q. Qu'en avez-vous pensé après votre expérience au pensionnat? À quel point cela vous a-t-il semblé différent d'aller à l'école de jour? Avez-vous mieux aimé? Ou était-ce pire? Qu'en as-tu pensé?
A. I don’t think it was any worse. I think it was just different because we had to go on the bus and we had to try to make new friends.
I’m a shy person so I usually kept to myself.
Q. Qu'en est-il de votre parcours de guérison? Pouvez-vous nous dire un peu comment ça va pour vous maintenant?
Tout d'abord, je devrais demander: Pensez-vous que votre expérience au pensionnat a affecté toute votre vie?
A. Yes. Because we were not allowed to show affection, it’s hard for me to say “I love you” to my children. That’s why I took counselling. It’s something that I have to think about daily, and to show them, not just to say it. Like I show them, but I don’t say it. They want me to show them. With my grandchildren it’s easier.
When I went to counselling —
I was ten when I left Residential School to go into foster care. I asked the counsellor why is it hard for me to do that? She asked: “How old were you when you left?” I said, “Ten.” She said, “That’s the age you left Residential School to go to foster care and that’s why it affects you.”
It’s something that stayed with you but I never thought about the age. I told her that I’m trying to show my children that I love them and that I care for them. But like I said, with grandchildren, or from a baby to ten, that’s when I could give them hugs and kisses. But after that I couldn’t. That’s when I found out why. That helped me in counselling because that was part of my life. It’s still part of my life.
I tell my children, I have a daughter and 3 sons, I tell them about Residential School and things I went through. They said, “We never knew how it affected you.” And I said, “It changes your life, but it was something I don’t regret going because I listened to my mom and I always kept in close contact with my mom.” I learned about her story. So when I went to Lost Generations, a Residential School Support Group, they had that for 5 years. That really helped me because I got to hear other stories and I got to know how we could support each other.
There were people from Waswanipi, in Quebec. My niece and I went up there about 4 years ago. They had a conference. It was thirty years before they had a conference. We were glad we could go to share our stories, how we’re healing.
I still go to a women’s circle in Brantford. I go to Jan’s group, and she teaches different things, how we can support each other.
Q. Quel âge ont vos enfants maintenant?
R. Ma fille a vingt-neuf ans, mon fils vingt-huit ans, mon autre fils vingt-sept ans et le dernier en a quinze.
Q. Vous a-t-il été facile de leur parler des pensionnats indiens ou cela vous a-t-il fallu plusieurs années avant de pouvoir le faire?
A. Well, when my daughter went to college and university she learned more about it. But she said that she couldn’t understand what I went through until she heard it from an elderly woman and what she had to go through. She says that now she understands why I am the way I am. Once she started asking questions, that’s when I got into it more. I didn’t want to pressure them or tell them this is the way things are because I didn’t want them to think negatively. Because there were good points. We did make friends.
The ones in Residential School are your family, so whenever you see anybody, they are still your family, and that’s the way I feel even to this day.
Q. I know the school is still standing. What’s it like for you when you see the school now?
A. Oh, I still go there. I go there for the library to get information. I’m doing a family tree because I didn’t really know my family. I go there and get information because they have things from the Census and stuff like that.
A lot of people, if you talk to them, who went to Residential School, a lot of them haven’t even gone back to their name. They had a different name when they went to Residential School. When they left, they changed their name because that’s how it affected them. You didn’t go by names. You went by numbers. You were a number.
Q. Vous souvenez-vous de votre numéro?
R. Mon numéro était soixante-six. Comme je l'ai dit, avec notre casier, vous aviez votre numéro dessus, vos vêtements et vos chaussures; les deux tenues.
Q. Qu'en est-il des autres repas comme le déjeuner et le dîner? Avez-vous senti que vous aviez assez de nourriture lorsque vous y étiez?
R. Oui. Mais vous n'avez jamais vu d'enfants en surpoids parce qu'ils vous ont amené à courir et à faire des choses. Certaines personnes ont planté, d'autres ont fait la vaisselle. Une institution a toutes sortes de vaisselle que vous devez laver et ensuite vous les aspergez de désinfectant. Il fallait tout nettoyer. Ils avaient de grosses machines à laver. D'autres dames sont allées à la salle de couture. Il y avait toutes sortes de corvées, mais c'était des choses qu'ils vous apprenaient à être, comme une femme au foyer ou un égout, à faire la lessive, à être agriculteur. Alors je pense qu'ils nous ont appris des choses comme ça.
But for little children if you’re not shown love or anything, you don’t know how to express that because you were told that’s bad —
Vous n'étiez même pas censé embrasser votre frère ou votre sœur!
Q. Cela a affecté la façon dont vous avez pu materner vos enfants?
R. Oui.
Q. Avant de parler de votre parcours de guérison, y a-t-il des dernières choses que vous aimeriez partager?
A. I would like to say thank you for this experience here, because it helps me. And I’m glad that I can help other people. I’m always learning.
Q. Et votre guérison? Comment cela a-t-il été pour vous?
A. My healing? I do journaling for myself, like I said, with my women’s circle, we make crafts such as moccasins, dream catchers, and sometimes we quilt and things like that.
Q. Cela vous aide-t-il à découvrir les traditions perdues?
A. Yes. Because when I go to the Reserve there are a lot of things that I never experienced, so I’m just learning them for the first time. So that helps me, and whatever I learn I pass on.
Q. That’s good. Any final words?
A. I’m just glad that I’m here.
Q. Bien. Merci beaucoup d'être venus aujourd'hui. Vous avez fait un très bon travail.
Un merci.
Q. Ces choses aident vraiment et font une différence, chaque personne qui a le courage, comme vous, de se manifester et de partager ses histoires, fait une différence pour les générations à venir. Les gens sauront enfin ce qui s'est passé, car personne ne le sait. Il y a trop de gens qui n'ont aucune idée, donc chacun est si important. Merci d'être venu.
Ah oui.
Q. Now I can give you your tobacco. You keep that. That’s for you.
R. Merci.
— End of Interview