THE INTERVIEWER: Okay, we’re ready.
Matilda, could you please say and spell your name for us?
MATILDA MARGARET MALLETT: Matilda Margaret Mallett;
M-a-t-i-l-d-a M-a-r-g-a-r-e-t M-a-l-l-e-t-t.
Q. And where do you come from?
A. I’m from Fisher River Indian Reserve.
Q. What Residential School did you go to?
A. Brandon Residential.
Q. Do you remember what years you were there?
A. I think from ’50 to ’55.
Q. Okay. How old were you when you left to go to Residential
School?
A. I think I was about maybe ten or eleven.
Q. Oh, okay. Do you remember the first day you left your home to
go to Residential School?
A. Yes, I remember.
Q. Could you tell us about that?
A. I remember my parents had to get us all ready and they had to
get —
I don’t remember actually how we got from our Reserve to go to
Hodson. We had to go to Hodson, Manitoba, and that’s where the
Residential School truck was there to pick us up. It was just a three-ton
truck with a box around it and wooden seats on each side. If you were
lucky enough to be one of the first ones getting in the truck you would get
a seat but otherwise you would have to sit on the floor or stand up all the
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way from Hodson to Brandon. That was probably a good four and a half
hour drive, or something like that.
Q. Wow.
A. I remember my mom and dad taking us to Hodson, but I don’t
remember how we got there, whether it was by horse or whether —
I don’t know if we even had cars then, or if anybody had a car. I
don’t remember how we got to Hodson. From there is when we got on the
truck, a big truck with a big green box on it. A whole bunch of us were in
the back of the truck and we went to Brandon in that truck.
Q. Did you go with brothers and sisters?
A. Just my older sister, yes, she came. Just the two of us went,
my older sister Shirley.
Q. Had Shirley been at school before?
A. No. We both went the same time.
Q. Did you know you were going?
A. Yes, we knew were going.
Q. How did you feel about that?
A. I don’t remember. It was pretty mixed feelings, I think. I had
pretty mixed feelings. I didn’t know where we were going. We had no
idea what Brandon was or where Brandon was, or what we were going to.
We had no idea. I don’t hardly remember even anybody talking about
Brandon before we went. My parents did say it was some school and it’s
a school were you live right there, you live right in the school, and they
said that they look after you. You don’t even have to go walking in the
snow to get to school. So I guess we kind of did look forward to that
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because we used to have to walk about two and a half hours in the snow
going to school on the Reserve. In the winter time it was very cold and
there was no road sometimes, to go. So I guess when mom and dad were
preparing us to go to Brandon, that was one of the stories they told us is at
least you won’t have to be plowing through the snow to get to school. You
could just get up and go eat and then go to the classroom.
I guess that’s how they tried to make us feel better about leaving.
Q. What was it like when you got to school?
A. Well, when we got to school we were —
I guess for myself I just felt kind of lost. I didn’t know how to mingle
with the other children or I didn’t know how to make friends. I didn’t know
who all was there. I didn’t know what to do. But the first thing I guess the
girls’ Supervisor or the girls’ Matron, the one that was in charge of all the
girls, she made sure that we —
She gave us a bundle with clothes, like a dress and
undergarments, socks and whatever, to change into after they told us to
go and shower and bath. They looked through our heads and I think even
if we didn’t have any head lice they still sprayed or powdered us all up with
that awful smelly – I can still smell it – that DDT they called it. And also
some kids I guess that really did have lots of head lice, they got their hair
shaved right off.
And they also did that for punishment, too.
Q. Did you ever get your hair shaved?
A. No. I never. I had very thin hair as a child. (Laughter)
Q. Did they cut your hair?
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A. I think they did. I don’t really remember. I’ve always had very
thin hair and it was quite —
At first it was straggling and I can’t remember if they cut it or not.
Q. Do you remember a typical day at school, from waking up to
going to bed?
A. A typical day would be —
When we first got there we had to get established and start wearing
the grey denim type dress and our big heavy navy or pink bloomers. We
had to wear those dresses all the time we were in school.
But a typical day would be that we would get up in the morning and
they would tell us all to get washed up and get ready to go down to the
Play Room. We would go to the Play Room and they would tell us —
They had boxes along the walls of the Play Room and they had our
numbers on there so we could keep all our little personal stuff that we had,
if we got anything that we wanted to keep, or probably some of our school
materials, too. They had boxes there and that’s where we would sit, too.
They would get us lined up by our box numbers.
We would sit there first and then when it was ready, when we were
ready to go to the Dining Room for our breakfast, we would all stand up
and they would have us all in stair steps, from the smallest to the biggest
and all that. Then they would march us into the Dining Room and we
would be in the Dining Room to have our breakfast. We would eat.
Of course I don’t remember too much of what we ate except for all
our bread, it was dunked into grease. We didn’t have butter or anything
like that but they had a big pail of melted grease. They would melt that up
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and we would dunk our bread in there and flop it on the tables. When you
get to sit down to eat the bread you would have to be trying to lift it off the
table because as the bread cooled off it stuck to the tables.
We never had any —
I don’t remember having juice or milk because we always just had a
pitcher of tea at each end of the table. They would give us tea to drink
most of the time. And then cod liver oil was something else they used to
make us take and if you would dribble some on your shirt that would smell
all day long. You would smell that cod liver oil on your shirt, or dress, or
whatever you were wearing.
They were very strict too about our posture when we were sitting at
the tables. The Matron would be going in between the rows of tables and
if anybody was slouched over she would whack them on the back and tell
them to straighten up and sit right. And no elbows on the table.
After meals would be over there would be some of us assigned to
go and clean up in the kitchen. When we came back out of the kitchen we
would get ready to go to school and go to our classrooms. That would be
the morning and then we would be in class right until noon, I guess, to go
down and have our dinner, lunch. After lunch we would go back to class
and then be in class until four. Then I guess some of the ones that had to
work in the kitchen would go and work in the kitchen to prepare for supper.
Then whoever else had to have chores, they would do their chores before
supper.
And the same thing in the mornings before school, if they had
chores, like cleaning the washrooms and toilets, they would do that in the
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mornings, too, before we go to breakfast or go to class. I guess that
would be a typical day.
In the evenings, after supper, I guess mostly in the evening time we
just hung out. I don’t really remember too much of what happened in the
evenings. Or we would go outside in the spring when it was nice out. We
would be outside in the evenings, but there was an invisible line between
the boys’ and girls’ side so we were never allowed to go past, to go over to
the boys’ side and the boys were never allowed to come to the girls’ side,
either. So we played all in our area on the girls’ side.
I guess that would also be on Saturdays and Sundays. Sundays
was a very —
I guess that’s when we got all our religion, too. We would go to
service Sunday morning and then go to Sunday School Sunday afternoon
and then have another service about seven o’clock that evening.
Also I think on Wednesdays we used to have services. I guess
before each meal we had grace and they taught us how to also say an
evening prayer, for a bedtime prayer.
Q. What religion was it?
A. United, United Church.
Q. Okay.
A. Most of my time that I was in Brandon I worked in the kitchen.
That’s where I learned some of my cooking skills working in the kitchen. I
spent most of my time in the kitchen.
They used to rotate us all the time to work in different areas, like in
the Sewing Room, the Laundry Room, housekeeping and cooking. I
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ended up always in the kitchen. I did try to work in the Sewing Room but I
can’t sew. I guess I wasn’t a very good sewer so the instructor for the
Sewing room told me that I would never be able to sew!
Q. So you were good in the kitchen?
A. I ended up back in the kitchen, yeah.
Q. Did you like it in the kitchen?
A. Yeah, I did. I liked it in the kitchen. At least we were able to get
a little more food than what was put on the tables. We could sample
more. I learned how to cook. We did all the —
I can’t remember if we did all the dishes by hand. I can’t remember
whether we did or not or whether we had a dishwasher.
Q. Matilda, when we were talking earlier you mentioned that you
were nervous that you might cry. I’m wondering, do you want to talk about
that and the hardships that you had at school?
A. I did have a lot of hardships. Yeah, I guess I could share some
of that but I don’t want to go too much into it.
There’s times the other students would be picking on each other,
eh, like fighting. There were a few times I got into some fights myself.
Q. Really?
A. Yeah, but I was only defending myself but I guess I was a pretty
strong person and I was able to defend myself pretty good. I never got too
much of a licking. (Laughter) But we did —
There were lots of fights and a lot of jealousy between girls.
Then there were times I was lonesome for my parents. I would be
crying, of course, and wondering if I’ll ever see them again or if I’ll ever go
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home again, or if I was going to be there forever. I didn’t know all of that,
especially the first year I was there. I didn’t even know that we were going
to be going home for summer holidays. I thought that we were there to
stay until I don’t know when.
But anyway, when the first summer holiday came along after we
were there for ten months I went home and I guess I felt totally different. I
felt different. I didn’t feel like it was family any more. I felt just like who
are these people now, eh, and I didn’t really —
I couldn’t seem to connect back with my mother or father. I think
my mother and father also went through a lot, too, with their children being
sent away. I think that’s why they started drinking more and they became
quite heavy drinkers. A lot of times every summer that we came home my
parents were drinking. But I think that was also their way of coping with
their children being taken away.
Q. I would like to ask you because you went when you were ten or
eleven, I’m wondering did you go at that later age just because you did
have the opportunity to go to school at home but it was just really hard?
A. Yes, yes. But I was also very small for my age, too. My mom
and dad didn’t let me go to school until maybe I was about eight years old,
or so. And then that’s when we were trying to walk.
There were a lot of bigger kids. In the winter time mostly was the
hardest part. Sometimes there would be no road at all because it had
snowed the night before. The boys that lived in my area there, they would
plow a road for the smaller kids as we walked to school. And then when
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we got to school if we were late then the teacher at the school would yell
at us for being late! (Laughter)
Yes, I did have a chance to go to school, day school.
Q. Do you think maybe the girls at Residential School picked on
you more because you were a new girl and they had been there for
longer?
A. I think that was one of the things. I think we also had —
How do you say it?—A rivalry.
Q. Oh yeah.
A. Because there were a lot of girls from Saskatchewan also, eh,
and from Manitoba so there was always fighting between Manitoba and
Saskatchewan girls.
Q. Wow.
A. I guess the Saskatchewan girls, there were more of them at that
particular time, and bigger girls, so they kind of ruled the school at that
time. And then they made sure that —
I guess they bossed the smaller kids around, or even bossed
everybody that was younger than them. That was one of the things that
was happening there.
The last two years I was there it was Manitoba’s turn to be ruling
the school. (Laughter) Because the Saskatchewan kids didn’t come
back. There were a few that came back but not as many or not bigger
ones, because the bigger ones moved on to —
I think that’s when they were transferring them to Birtle, so the
higher Grades went to Birtle.
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Q. I know there are hardships that you went through that you’re not
ready to talk about at this time. I respect that.
I wanted to ask you because you talked about the fact that you’re
just starting your healing journey, do you want to share about that at all?
A. No, I don’t think so.
Q. It’s too hard?
A. No, not at this time because I don’t even know where to begin
with my healing journey. I know I have a lot of issues in my life. There
were many challenges in my life that I really need to deal with and I don’t
know how to begin to go on my healing journey. I have tried different
ways or different things to start my healing journey, but I kind of leave my
Residential School back there instead of dealing with that. I think if I was
to deal with that then I wouldn’t be having all these other problems that
have surfaced since my experience at Residential School.
But I did do some for my own self-improvement, things to help me
be a better person. But I’ve never dealt with my Residential School things
yet. I don’t how to begin or where to begin. A lot of times I have some
friends when I want to start talking, they end up taking over the
conversation and I would not be able to just open up and talk because I
guess one of the things I find, too, is that when I’m ready to talk that’s
when I want to deal with some of the things. But I guess I haven’t found
the right person who will just sit and listen to me. Instead they want to
heal me, or solve my problems instead of just listening while I finally open
up.
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I haven’t found anybody that would just share with me or that I
would feel comfortable sharing with.
Q. What made you want to come and share your story with us
today?
A. Pardon?
Q. Why did you want to come today and share your story with us?
A. I actually wasn’t coming in to share my story with you today!
(Laughter)
Q. Oh, my goodness.
A. Actually I was just told about this a couple of days ago and I
wasn’t prepared to come in and tell my whole story. That’s why I asked
you earlier when we were talking what happens if I think of something
after this interview is over, if I could contact you or whatever and let you
know some of my other experiences.
Q. So you’re going to send us a letter if you feel comfortable doing
that?
A. I probably will, yeah. Maybe a letter would be even easier for
me to go through rather than talking. Sometimes I have problems talking.
Q. Well, you sure did a great job. And you have answered all of
our questions.
Do you have anything else that you would like to add?
A. I would like to add that the Residential School did have a lot of
negatives but it also had a lot of positives. One of the positive things I
think that I got out of the Residential School is that I learned how to cook.
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I cooked all my life. That was my career all through my life. I worked as a
cook in institutions like personal care homes and hospitals.
I was always dedicated. I always made sure that I went to work. I
hardly ever ever phoned in sick. I made sure that I was there for all my
shifts. I think that was one of the learnings I got from Brandon is to be a
good worker. We had a schedule. I guess it was regimented you would
say. You had to do this or you had to do that. That’s what I guess I
focused on most of my life up until I started learning more about the
Residential School, of all the things that have affected my life, how it has
affected my life.
So I’ve never dealt too much with the negatives. I think that’s
probably going to be my next step is trying to deal with all the negatives.
While I was in the working field —
I have always worked. I have never ever been unemployed. I
worked every day that was my day to work. I worked. I know I did drink
alcohol but I never let it take over because I always heard, every place I
worked, “it’s payday today, she’ll go out and get drunk and she’ll not come
in to work the next day”. That’s what people would say. So I said that I’m
going to let them know that I’m not going to go out and get drunk and not
show up for work! I always made sure that I showed up for work. But I
never would let the alcohol stop me from going to work.
I never ever really drank heavy or anything like that. But I used to
just hate it when they used to say that to me, “It’s payday, she’s going to
go out and get drunk and she’ll not come to work tomorrow.”
I guess I kind of took that as —
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It made me fight. It built up a fight in me so that I could continue to
work.
Q. Matilda, thank you so much for coming today.
How do you feel? Are you okay?
A. I don’t feel as nervous as I first did.
Q. I knew it. I knew it! I knew you would be okay.
Do you want to have a drink of your tea?
A. Yes, please.
— End of Interview