THE INTERVIEWER: Art, I’ll get you to spell your first name and your last name for me.
ARTHUR FOURSTAR: Arthur Fourstar.
Q. Dans quelle école êtes-vous allé?
A. Birtle, Manitoba. Et aussi la résidence indienne de Prince Albert.
Q. Quel âge aviez-vous lorsque vous êtes allé pour la première fois à Birtle?
R. J'avais cinq ans et dix mois.
Q. Vous souvenez-vous à quoi ressemblait votre premier jour?
A. It’s a bad memory. I was taken to Residential School on October 20th, 1944 and I’ve gotten that date from my school records.
Q. De quoi vous souvenez-vous de ce jour-là?
A. What I remember is I was at home with my mother and she was making bannock. I was playing on the floor. My father was in the Second World War so there was just my mom and me. And on that day that I mentioned, all of a sudden the door opened and an RCMP Officer and a man whom I came to know as Mr. Finlayson (ph.) came in. The RCMP Officer went over to my mother and held her from behind and Mr. Finlayson – it could be Mr. Findlay – came to me and just grabbed me and took me out to the car and threw me in the car.
Je me souviens avoir crié. Je me souviens que ma mère faisait la même chose. Mais le policier l'a retenue. Lorsque M. Findlay m'a jeté dans la voiture, je suis sorti par l'autre porte et j'ai couru. Mais il a couru après moi et m'a rattrapé. J'aime penser au mot enlevé. Après m'avoir attrapé, il m'a jeté à nouveau sur le siège arrière et ils m'ont attaché avec mes mains comme ceci (indiquant). Et nous sommes partis.
I had no idea where Birtle was. We drove through the night. I didn’t know. I didn’t even know it was a Residential School that I was going to. There were lots of kids there and a big building, bigger than I had ever seen in my life.
That’s when the darkness began. They kept me over there for five years without coming home for the summer, year round, because they couldn’t find my mother. I understand that today.
In the summertime they used to chase me to bed at seven o’clock in the evening in July and August when the sun was still high. And in the big dormitory that I was sleeping in I used to sit on the windowsill and just look, I guess. I didn’t even know which way was home or where to go. I didn’t even know where I was. Sometimes the supervisor used to catch me sitting on the windowsill and beat me up pretty good. It was terrible.
Si quelqu'un s'enfuyait de l'école et attrapait cette personne, cet élève, que ce soit une jeune fille ou un jeune garçon, ils nous faisaient entrer dans cet atelier où ils avaient de grands bancs en bois et ils avaient l'habitude de déshabiller ce garçon ou cette fille et les plier sur une table et les fouetter. Ils nous faisaient regarder ça.
J'avais vraiment très peur. J'avais beaucoup de peur.
I also got a lot of beatings. I remember one time during the summer holidays, the summer holidays started, they used to load the students from Saskatchewan onto a big truck with canvas over it. When they loaded that truck with Saskatchewan students to go home I wanted to get on that truck, too. I was about eight then. But they wouldn’t let me. When the truck drove off I chased that truck but I couldn’t catch up. Those students, they had their hands out at the back. They were going to try to pull me up onto the truck, I guess, if I could have caught up, but I couldn’t.
En revenant au pensionnat, une oie a croisé mon chemin avec de petits oisons derrière et j'étais tellement en colère que j'ai donné un coup de pied à cet oisillon et je l'ai tué.
— Speaker overcome with emotion
As a result of that Mr. Findlay took me upstairs and he filled a bathtub with cold water and he put me in it. He left me there. I don’t know what my skin looked like. He would come in and let me get out of the water for a little while and then would shove me back in there again.
Un mois environ plus tard, j'ai eu une sorte de maladie et tous les enfants étaient déjà partis. Finalement, ils m'ont emmené à Brandon. J'étais enveloppé, sauf ici et ici (indiquant) où ils m'ont nourri avec une paille. Puis, de Brandon, ils m'ont expédié à un endroit à Winnipeg. Je pense qu'ils l'ont appelé Saint-Boniface.
When they first got me there they put me in this hallway just inside the door and I was in this hallway and I could move my head. Just across the hall there was a little baby, and that little baby had a huge head. I was watching that little baby and a couple came in. I guess it was the mother and father of that little baby because they stood there watching that little baby and the lady was crying and the man had his arms —
Je me souviens avoir pensé à moi-même quel petit bébé chanceux. Au moins ses parents sont là.
That’s the way I fell asleep. When I woke up again the little baby was gone.
— Speaker overcome with emotion
I didn’t know where it went but wherever it went, I wanted to go with him. I never seen him again.
They put me in a room. I guess I was supposed to die. A lot of times I wished I had. I remember the doctor coming in and the doctor saying while the nurses were working on the bandages, I remember the doctor saying, “Is he still with us?” I don’t know how the nurses answered.
After they finished wrapping me up they gave me some juice, I don’t know whether I fell asleep or what, but I seen this old lady and she had on a shawl. It was like she was floating toward me. She looked so tiny. She came to my bed and she began to —
Those bandages, they went like this (indicating). She looked under them and she started to chew something. I was watching her. As she was chewing she was stroking me. I don’t know how I felt, but it was beautiful, though. And she looked so kind. That stuff that she was chewing, she went like that (spitting) and she began to rub me. After she finished, those bandages, they closed by themselves. And then she started to move away. I wanted to go with her.
I learned later that was my grandma. In one of those ceremonies we talked about this morning; shaking tent. Within a week I was out of the hospital. The doctors were amazed. They asked me what I did. I said that I didn’t do nothing. But I never told them about this.
Tous ces trucs, les coups et des trucs comme ça, j'ai traversé tout ça.
I was just telling my friend out in the hallway. I said, “Have you ever heard the saying if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, did it really fall?” I was telling him. You know what, I identify with that tree. My mosho (ph.) told me, she said, “You go find that tree because when you find that tree you will find yourself.” I think for a long time I somehow wanted to be heard but it seemed that nobody wanted to listen.
As a result of my Residential School I had a lot of anger. A lot of that stuff those guys are talking about, a lot of anger, revenge, hatred —
I was charged with non-capital murder and convicted of manslaughter. I spent time in the penitentiary. That’s a shameful part of my life. But I think it’s all a part of my Residential School.
When I was working in Stoney Mountain Penitentiary – I have a complete pardon – I got a job at Stoney Mountain Penitentiary. And Birtle is just off Highway 16 there. I went there, I stopped there. I was alone and I went inside. I went upstairs to where I used to sit and I went and sat where I used to sit in those evenings of July. I went and sat there and I began to shake. I had to crawl out of there. I had a really difficult time. I was alone.
After I got outside I had to sit in one place for quite some time and smoke before I could get up and walk away from there. I don’t think I’m finished with that place yet.
I told the psychologist over there – I forgot his name – he works for Native Clan, I think. Yeah. I worked for him, too, Lawrence Elderby (ph.). I told him about that. He said, “Art, you and me have to go back there. We’ll camp there.” But it never happened. I wish it had to at least try to see what it was.
Parfois, je regarde la télévision, surtout quand ils bombardaient l'Irak avec ces bombes intelligentes. J'aurais aimé qu'ils fassent ça à Birtle!
— Speaker overcome with emotion
I spent a lot of time in Dispensaries there because my ears used to freeze. That’s why I’ve got big ears, I guess, and other things. They wouldn’t let me go inside until it was time, and half the time my ears were frozen.
I would like to have a smoke break. There’s something coming up here.
Q. Take a deep breath. We’ll turn the camera off so you can go ahead and let it out.
— Speaker overcome with emotion
Q. That’s all right. Take a deep breath. You’re safe. Take a deep breath. Breathe.
— A Short Pause
A. I didn’t know this was going to happen.
Q. Take a nice deep breath. You have to remember that you’re the boss. You’re in control.
A. I guess that’s part of it. It seems like I always have to ask for permission for this or for that.
Q. You don’t have to ask for permission here. You’re in charge here. Take that with you. Put it in your pocket.
Un merci.
Q. You’re so brave. I’m so proud of you, Arthur. You did such a good job.
Ce pauvre type.
— Speaker leaves the room momentarily and returns.
Q. Comment vous sentez-vous?
A. Un peu instable mais assez bien pour continuer.
Q. Voulez-vous votre eau? Avoir une gorgée.
R. Je devais me donner la permission de respirer.
Q. It’s almost like your entire story is still inside of you and it’s trying to come out. And you want to keep it there. You’ve gotta let it come out. This has happened before with some of the other survivors. You have to find a way to let it come out because you can’t carry it any more.
Number one, you don’t have to carry it.
A. Ouais. Je suppose que l'une des choses que j'ai apprises là-bas à Birtle est de savoir comment me retirer et ne pas avoir de sentiments, parce que parfois, quand j'avais l'habitude de prendre une sangle, c'était comme si j'étais mort. Aucun sentiment. Parfois je me retire dans un monde de rien.
Q. Zoné?
A. Yeah, I guess so. One of the things that was broken over there was family bonds. Those were severed. When my mom and my dad passed on it was like no feeling. I heard people around me say “you’re so strong, you stood there and you were like a warrior, man”. But no, I wasn’t. It’s not that. It’s something else. And it’s still over there. Whatever it is, it’s still over there.
My brothers and sisters, I’ve got two sisters left. You know, I don’t even know where they are and it seems like I don’t care. My brother, he drinks in Saskatoon on 20th Street and it’s like it doesn’t matter. I try and pretend sometimes that it matters when there’s other people. But it’s like I’m dead sometimes.
I’m doing some work with some guys in the penitentiary right now, with gang members. The program that we do involves a lot of the stuff that we’re hearing. We used to call it Medicine Wheel. But we discussed that word “medicine” and we found that we have too much respect for that word “medicine”, and we’ve taken that word “medicine” out of it and now we call it the Life Cycle of Life. It’s still in those four stages, four directions. And those guys in there boy, they’re going through a lot, too, we tell them.
They come in aggressive, confrontational and right in your face type of guys. By the time they leave there, they are crying. It’s a big change.
Yet I can work with other people not knowing what’s happening inside of me, like just now.
I’ve been through a number of relationships. I don’t know a thing about relationships. I have four children; three daughters and one son. They are all from different women. I’m not proud of that but I’m proud of my children.
I have grandchildren. It feels so good to hear that word “Mosho” (ph.). That’s a powerful gift.
Je voudrais en rester là pour le moment.
Q. Ça vous dérange si nous terminons? J'aimerais savoir quel est votre espoir, votre espoir pour vous-même.
A. My hope for myself is to be able to make peace with myself. Right now, like I was telling my friend, we hear a lot about that word “survivor”. Inside the walls when I go to work with my friend, we can’t always stay survivors. We have to move past that and become what we call it, any way, “seekers”.
When you talked about your son going out and seeking a vision, he was a seeker, and I think you’ve got so much to be proud of there.
When we’re seekers we’re seeking information, and as we gather this, in my experience, too, as I’m gathering this information I begin to have the tools to make peace with myself. Even today I’ve touched something that has remained untouched for sixty-some years, and I know where to go. I think in seeking we get direction. Because when I say that I know where to go, I’m talking about that shaking tent, and when the spirits come, Art needs to make peace with himself and step into the world of Eldership and become a peacemaker.
So my hope is that I’ll be a good one, a good peacemaker because I’ve been through so much. That stuff that I’ve been through I think is what is going to make me strong, once I get through it. And I’m going to get through it because I think it’s important to the Creator. I believe in God. I want to work for God in a good way.
My Indian name is Neawatsakos (ph.), four spirits. I have a Dakota name. I’m a Dakota Indian. And I have a Dakota name: Tatayopokwana (ph.): He who opens the door. And my hope is to live up to those names the best I can. And I need to do some more work, but I know where to go.
Merci.
Q. M’gwich. That’s really good. Just take a deep breath. Take a deep breath.
R. Merci d'être ici, mec.
Q. Vous avez probablement l'un des meilleurs outils pour vous aider parce que votre grand-mère vous apparaît. Je ne pouvais que souhaiter que nos ancêtres nous apparaissent pour nous guider. Droite? Vous ne pouvez qu'espérer et souhaiter cela.
A. I’ve seen some beautiful visions already. It’s powerful.
Like in my dream, a big huge eagle came to me and this eagle, his wingspan was from horizon to horizon and I was hanging onto a feather, just here (indicating) and the eagle was coming down and I was looking. I had long hair and when I looked down I seen a sweat lodge and I don’t know what that eagle did but all of a sudden I was sitting inside that sweat and it was just like daylight. Over there, in that number one spot, was an old man sitting there, and he looked so kind.
Là où l'aigle m'a atterri, j'étais du côté est face à l'ouest et j'étais assis là. Tout à coup, un hochet de voir-voir (ph.) A commencé à circuler. Je le regardais. Il se tenait juste devant moi, mais la fosse était juste devant moi. Tout à coup, il est entré là-dedans. J'ai regardé ce vieil homme et il a souri.
The next thing the eagle claw started going around, same thing, over there and it went right in here (indicating). It just went right in. I looked down and there was blood coming down out of my chest here; blood. I tried to stop that blood and that’s when I woke up. I was sitting up in bed with my hand like this (indicating), and I looked around. But I’ve had many many visions.
And my grandmother’s name in Sioux, translated to English, her name is “She Who Wears a Shawl”. That was the one who came.
I believe the grandfathers have told me there’s a pipe coming to me. I already have a pipe. I already have all that stuff, but there’s another pipe coming.
Q. Votre autel?
A. Ouais. Merci d'être ici, mon ami.
Q. Puis-je vous demander quelque chose? Pensez-vous que cela vous a aidé? Pensez-vous qu'aujourd'hui raconter votre histoire vous a aidé?
A. Yes. But I do know —
I’m one of those guys who will go through an experience and look back at it and I’ll think about it.
Q. Because I want to know that we’re doing the right thing.
A. I believe you are. I believe you are because in here I’ve touched something that had to be touched. I’ve avoided that all these years. It’s easy to act normal. Right? Nothing to it. It’s when you begin to see that truth and that honesty come, is when it’s powerful.
Thank you. I really believe you’re doing a good job. Keep it up. Right.
Q. I think we’ll hire you to be our spokesperson! (Laughter)
— End of Interview